Sergey - Purely Technical Support Question, Please Help.

[deesto]

Sergey,

As I'm running my realguitar it is based on this configuration:

Dell Inspiron 8500
Mobile Intel Pentium
4-M CPU 2.20GHz
512 MB RAM (x2 256)
Geforce 4 64MB Graphics
MK-461C M-Audio USB Midi keyboard
SigmaTel Audio Sound card (the one by default with the laptop)
Windows XP Home
NTFS 30 GB HDD(Free space 10GB)


It seems that when i run RG with all of the samples (except for the 290MB Steel Stereo Guitar Samplebank), RG as a standalone version seems to work fairly good 99% of the time provided i keep a buffer size of 22ms (44.1KHz, 16Bit) which is a little bit of latency but i can kinda cope - Direct Sound. With less buffer size i'm starting to hear digital noises and stuttering.

When i load the stereo sample bank, then sometimes the sound gets a little cut or digitally repeated for a few ms every now and again, sporadically. i notice a little bit of hard disk activity (not mad, though) when this happens. and if i play all notes in the keyboard (like if this had to be loaded into RAM fully) it seems to get better for a while, but every now and again this occurs again.

What's happening?

When i run this as a plugin though, either in logic audio 5.1.3 (PC AV selected in audio preferences) or in pro tools 6.4 LE this inter-cut stutter type of sound occurs way more often -sometimes acompanied by digital noise or almost cuting the sound at a constant intermitent fast rythm (no tremolo effocts on, though). Of course when using pro tools le i go via my Magma expansions chasis CB2 which hosts a Digi001. I have never had problems of latency or large buffer size problems with this digidesign sound card in the mac. Do you know what's happening? (i set a minimum buffer n my 001 to be around 1024, if i go any lower the problem gets worse, if i go double that (te next step up) it becomes almost impossible to play - so much delay/latency!

In LA when using the 001 (ASIO digidesign driver - latest) is more or less the same. and regardless of whether i tick the larger process buffer and/or the larger disk buffer options. Note that this problem occurs with all patches now, rather than just with the stereo steel guitar. so it's quite aoying to hear those glitches when sequencing.

Am I running out of RAM (this is where i say audio streaming of the HDD might be more advantageous as it may have faster trasnfer rates?)? Or maybe my HDD or RAM is too slow already?

Am i not configuring something right? I thought my 001 was a low latency card but i seem to have more problems with it?

Logic Audio 5.1.3 Settings:
PC AV
EASI Directsound
volume smoothing 50ms
Max. # of audiotracks: 24
larger buffer size
buffer size 1000-2000 (much bigger = playing is harder)
16 busses
universal track mode

with these the problem seems less aparent than with the 001. Although once i load up the stereo steel RG it gets back with all that noise and little stutering guitar sound. If i try to swtich back to a smaller samplebank the problem sometimes goes away but sometimes not.

I thought that my amount of RAM and CPU speed was just right for this software - especially as i can kinda get it to work quite well in standalone mode, except for every now and again with the stereo steel RG samplebank?

any of your help is greatly appreciated, thank you.
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[deesto]

i forgot to mention:

when in LA with the Digi001 i sometimes got this error message (I'm not quoting it though, it's something along the lines of:

overload, cannot deliver in time (blah, blah, blah- i can't remember the rest)

I got that when the digital guitar sound stutter was at its worst.


The other thing that seems to be happening is a little bug where the sustain pedal gets stuck (i hear the notes ongoing) although the HOLD button is off. if i hit the sustain pedal on or off i see the HOLD button on/off working as well. So it doesn't seem a MIDI panic thing.

the other issue i'm having is that when switching chords (in the chords mode) very fast and i use my two fingers to play up/down strums at the same time also at a fairly fast rythm in conjunction with the sustain pedal, sometimes the next chord will be muted - completely dead silent, no RG muted type of sound comes out) and it won't play regardless of whether i hit my up/down strumming keys in the strum keyboard section. i have to rehit my chord again, by which time i'm out of tempo of course:-) - and people/my audience will have noticed that mistake .

This especially so if i try to do an alternating up/down struming very fast and i go from chord Am-G-F-E so as to emulate like a spanish "rasgeando" end of song type articulation.

Any ideas as to why?

sorry if i'm not being very precise, let me know. By the way, the suggestion that landphil gave for pull off/hammer stuff seems to work great! of course the only problem is that going above 2 semitones (or even just one depends on which scale/chord tonality) you cannot get away with it because you are still hearing all the semitones transition from the original note therefore sounding dissonant at times. Otherwise that's the kinda thing i think we're looking for .Only if we could skip the in between semitones or sumink while hammering on the fret notes in larger intervals it would do just fine for the time being i reckon...

i would post you mp3 samples of this but only i could get RG to work in either sequencer properly - and if i knew how to upload this up on my website... i have completely forgoten even where my page is. i know, i know, call me a stoneaged person if you like
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[Sergey_MusicLab]

deesto,

shortly:

- first and the main - double the RAM to 1024 MB, that stronly helps

- other details tomorrow

Regards,
Sergey
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[deesto]

sergey, thank you for posting so fast. i will indeed wait for more of your details tomorrow as upgrading the ram to 1024 i think will be a rather expensive solution... how much are we talking here in dollars or british pounds (sterling) anyway? maybe it might be worth it if these components are cheap ( i guess i would need x2 512 as i already have all my slots full with x2 256)...

or i will have to wait until the mac version comes out where i indeed have exactly 1GB of ram - the maximum in my powerbook G4 800MHz running panther 10.3.4 at the mo..

cheers

Denis

PS: By the way, Denis is better m8. Denis will do
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[Landphil]

deesto,

a 512m stick of pc2100 DDR ram runs appx. from $70 ~ $100 USD

Didn't have time to convert to EU , as I'm running a bit late!

The stuttering does sound like it might be associated with RAM.

Phil

[JohnR]

[Sergey_MusicLab]

deesto,

1. I think you can change one 256MB stick to 512 to get 768MB RAM. That will help a lot.
Can't say confidently that RG will work fully stable after that because I don't know your sound card possibilities. In any case the upgrade to 766MB would give you much better results.

We are thinking about developing the ECO mode for RealGuitar which will
load less samples and sound poor but can be playable without sound troubles.

2. <the other issue i'm having is that when switching chords (in the chords mode) very fast and i use my two fingers to play up/down strums at the same time also at a fairly fast rythm in conjunction with the sustain pedal, sometimes the next chord will be muted - completely dead silent>

That's known issue and we've fixed it for the future update - that happens when you press repeat key and chord note simultaneously.

3. <the sustain pedal gets stuck (i hear the notes ongoing)>

In RG 1.01 the sustain pedal and Hold button duplicates each other (except for the Solo mode).

When you release the sus pedal the chord plays release noise as well as a fret noise sound. Is that what you asked about?

Regards,
Sergey
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[deesto]

Sergey, Phil & JohnR - thank you for your helpful posts as ever.

ok, I'm going on holiday tomorrow eve, but you will be pleased that i have started talks with an ebayer seller for more RAM for when i come back around mid july. This is my bet: If by then the mac version of this RG plugin has not been launched yet, i will proceed with the purchase

It was lucky I own the virtual guitarist plugin as well so i understood what you mean by 'ECO.' Otherwise you would have confused me the bejiives out of me .

That sounds and interesting solution. But i think what people need to know very clearly (perhaps in bold red big letters on your website) is that they'll have a reduced performance if they don't have 1024 RAM installed. Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty certain i have seen this reccomended minimum system requirements somewhere so my problem does not at all surprise me (and I'm pretty certain i had thought that i would be covered with my Mac's RAM when the plugin gets launched for this platform - it's just I'm really liking the plug, can't live w/o it now ) , but it needs to be an in-your-face type of thing that you can clearly see on your website. Just a suggestion?


Regarding your point 2.

yes, that's exactly the issue i have indeed (I'm glad it has been fixed - let us know when you release the update in this forums if you can), and i know it's happeb because i see a 0 velocity result in the chord type section of RG.

Regarding point 3.

No, not at all. What you describe is the great normal behaviour, which is also described in the RG manual. Like i was saying earlier, I mean it sounds more like a RG internal MIDI panic type of thing. No matter if i release or press the sustain pedal that it shows that HOLD is depressed or pressed in, the notes are still kept sustaining (no fret noises) regardless. So, if i play let's say the Am notes in the solo mode, when this happens every now and again, the next time i go into another chord notes these notes will still be sutaining/decaying for a time therefore creating dissonancies (like if i was sutaining them artificially - and yes it is NOT a release time setting which is causing this, i have indeed checked this, and as i say it only happens sporadically while on the same session). In the standalone version, which is the only one i can use succefully for now, sometimes it cures it self and it goes back to the proper behaviour. Sometimes it doesn't though. and the only way to get it back working properly is to re-launch the program. I have tried unplugging and pluggin back in the sustain pedal into my keyboard while the program is running to check it wasn't my keyboard simply MIDI "panic'ing."

Any more ideas? Am I making sense?

Actually while I'm here... would you by any chance be allowed to let us know if your mac release of the plug will also include and Audio Unit version (AU), as well as an RTAS and VST? No biggie if you can't, though.
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[Sergey_MusicLab]

deesto,

About RAM specification:

We tested RealGuitar with 512MB and it works fine if you don't use Steel Stereo 290MB patch and don't play very fast chord strums.
With 768 MB everything is OK.
As you maybe noticed the number of simultaneous voices/samples in Chords mode with stereo patches can reach 48 and even more (with big release time set), so the more RAM you have in your computer, the better results you get with RealGuitar.

<No matter if i release or press the sustain pedal that it shows that HOLD is depressed or pressed in, the notes are still kept sustaining (no fret noises) regardless.>
- Simply select other mode and back by clicking the mode button (that works in RealGuitar as a 'panic'command in case any note is sustaining). Think that can occur when your RAM is full and you play fast strums with muted strums alternating.

<let us know if your mac release of the plug will also include and Audio Unit version (AU), as well as an RTAS and VST>
- we'll release the VST Mac version first, then planning the AU and RTAS support.

Regards,
Sergey
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[deesto]

[deesto]

Sergey,

I'm now back at home. Indeed the panic workaround you suggested worked. So i guess it is that RAM thingy you suggested... because I find my self playing strums and muted strums quite a lot.

Onto something completely different now... Can you tell me if it is possible to assign my controller buttons of my keyboard MK-461C Evolution (buttons 0-9) to act as specific switches for the RG modes (solo, chords, ...)? I find that with controller no. 59 or 54(can't remember of the top of my head) assigned to a fader or a pot it is indeed possible. so maybe each mode has a specific controller value?

Many thanks!!!
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[Sergey_MusicLab]

deesto,

That's easy:

divide 127 by 5 (# of modes) and use the CC 54 value somewhere in the middle of range for individual mode.
ex:
- 1st (Solo) = 1-25 (use 20)
- 2nd (Harmony) = 25-50 (use 35)

etc...

Test that by yourself

Regards,
Sergey
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[Guest]

Sergey,

Yes, yes, yes! you are the man! That works indeed. So I have managed to program those buttons now. cheers!! many thanks.
-------

One more question, but I think this is more related to how RG works than a technical support question. So here it goes:

I'm trying, by ear, to work out the chords played on the guitar on a song by Ketama & Antonio Flores (No ha sido un suen~o; Spanish). It is a sung duet song played along with two guitars panned left & right. And I'm trying to work out the exact guitar chords that they play and emulate this by using RG. But my ear it is not very good - so this is a good pitch training exercise for me and my ear actually. So, generally, to work all of it out, I have stuck with the guitar that I could hear that played most of the full sounding chords, to make my life easier.

Anyhow, after much struggle, I have ended up playing complex and not so complex chords in RG like a strummed sequence of

Gbm, D, Bm6, Db7sus4, Db, Gbm, Dbsus4, Gb7sus4, and back to Gbm, etc.

Now up to this point very well. RG has helped me a lot in finding this chords by ear and especially to help me write down these with their precise musical naming. No way I could have ever worked out those chords on the piano at home, as this instrumnt sounds very different to the guitar, especially when chord inversions are thrown in. It would have been an absolute nightmare and frustration - especially as the song does hardly contain any piano parts in it - had it not been for RG and a bit of sequencing... I would possibly still be trying to work out that Bm6 chord for example

In the song, some of these chords I have outlined above are "constructed" "artificially" by strumming the two guitars simultaneously (e.g. one guitar strums part of the chord, like the bottom end notes of the chord, the other strums the higher pitched notes of the chord). Up to this point also fine, it just made it more difficult for me to find out by ear which chord was being played where, and adapting this into one guitar single full chord to be played in one single RG guitar plugin instance. But other than that all cool, no problems there so far.

If i remember correctly one chord example of what I have explained above was:

Db7sus4

A great sounding chord by the way.... but it seems they needed two guitars to manage to play it for being so complex? Just like i think i would almost need two hands to play it on the piano/keyboard?

But I found that (on RG - chord & kbd mode) on looking at how the chord is played in RG this seems like an awful chord to play in reality as well on a guitar in terms of fret fingering stretch as well? Yet, in RG it seems manageable as all the six notes are pressed on the frets... so it seems a little unrealistic to me? but i'm not a guitar player at all and have not learned guitar. So, is this really the way a guitar player would play all these notes to achieve to play that particular chord? Or is RG enhancing something and playing extra notes/strings in the chords that normally a guitar player would not be able to reach?

I also found this in the bass &pick mode where it would seem to me quite hard to play the I & II root notes of the chord while playing the other chord notes at the same time? Sometimes it looked as though a player would have to alternate between playing all six notes or playing just 5 or 4 strings only... or having open strings played instead if these where sounding right for the chord.

So, how realistic are the chords positioning/playing in RG? This plugin seems to be constructing these chords out of single notes so this is why I'm asking.

The one thing which i quite found somewhat irritating was that as i was trying to work out the chords of a song one in particular kept coming up Gbm7.

But I could not play this in the same way that they played it and make it sound the same... in this case only one guitar was playing this chord in the song and I know the player was strumming Gb, A, Db, E only. I'm sure of it even though I have said that my ear is not so good above. He strums this chord quite slowly so i can ear and work out those individual notes/strings fret positioning for sure.

The closest to that chord strings/notes could get with RG was over the III or the VI (in chord mode), but even then RG seems to be addding extra notes or something that makes the chord too high pitched sounding or something, rather than a more mellow sound. Playing these over the II or I did sound even "worse" or too low.

I can achieve this chord indeed using the solo mode (by playing the strings/notes i need), but i would like to be able to play this song by strumming only straighthrough, in one track, one pass. Is this possible?

I have found other chords that seem to be doing also exactly this and reducing the number of strings does not seem to help because only the higher pitched strings are left to sound rather than the bottom ones. So in this song, only a few chords that i have managed to work out seem to sound exactly matched to the way these players played it on their own guitars. Like you can tell I'm playing exactly the same strings/notes that they did, and you can tell when I'm playing the same chord but when it doesn't quite sound like all of the same strings are being plucked...

I do not know if this is making any sense? maybe it is something to do with chord inversions or something like that, which RG cannot do?

Something i'm doing wrong perhaps?

[deesto]

oops I'm realising i have just posted the above as a guest rather than as myself, Denis (deesto)
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[deesto]

Hi Sergey,

I know you must be up to your neck in releasing RG1.5 in about a week's time... but I'm truly surprised not to have heard an answer from you about the above. Normally you are extremely fast at replying. Maybe you did not see it. So this is why I post this message so that this topic goes at the top of the list again and try my luck this way again.

Many thanks, you know i always appreciate your help.

Cheerio.

Denis (deesto)
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